Sponsor |  Laukev7 | Dec 22, 2007 11:05pm | Where have you seen "I agree 100% with Ron Paul"? Show me some examples. I can only imagine those lines coming from hardcore libertarians, but they hardly make the whole of his support base. Ron Paul has many leftist supporters, I doubt they would agree with everything he says. Ron Paul draws a lot of support from the 9/11 Truth Movement, which is largely non-partisan; they acknowledge that he doesn't believe 9/11 was an inside job, but he promised an independent investigation. Many Ron Paul supports come from the anti-globalisation movement, on account of his opposition to the North American Union and world government; not necessarily all of them agree with the US pulling out of the UN. Even Socialists support Ron Paul, and they have made largely the same points as I have.
Ron Paul supporters are a broad coalition, not a unitary movement as you seem to imply. Broad coalitions means that people get together and make compromises. That doesn't mean they agree on everything or are blind to their disagreements. In my country there is a political party dedicated to Quebec sovereignty, which is a coalition of leftist social-democrats and rightist nationalists.
Maybe I haven't Seen the same Ron Paul supporters as you have, because I haven't seen the Ron Paul cult that you are alluding to, certainly not in the Ron Paul group on SU. |
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|  commerican | Dec 22, 2007 11:55pm | I know at least one IRL, and can name a few stumblers that exhibit this behaviour and have voiced the very sentiments I listed. I don't remember the exact thread or conversation, but I can rattle off some names (not in public).
I see the type of person you want Ron Paul to be, I really do. He may even be it, but the hordes of followers that act like zombies undermine his image. We know what happens when people turn into sheeple, regardless of their ideology. I see too much emotion and not enough rationality in their support, and it has me worried.
Maybe you are not this way and can find something worthwhile in Ron Paul. I do not, and that is fine. Consider me the grumpy stopgap that refuses to get on the bandwagon, even if he's wrong.
Because, sometimes, he's not. |
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Sponsor | | Laukev7 | Dec 23, 2007 8:58am | I see what you mean. The Iranian revolution may be a comparable example, with people believing that Khomeini would save the country from the Shah. I respect stopgaps. because they often turn out to be right. That's how I was when the Democrats won the 2006 election.
What other solution is there then? At the moment Ron Paul is giving hope to many people who are aware of the corruption that is being ignored or dismissed as 'conspiracy theories' and desperate to bring change. If he were a fascist demagogue I would be very worried, but he doesn't look like one to me. It's not like he's some CFR or Bilderberg elitist either. If it's any consolation to you I highly doubt that Ron Paul will be allowed to win the election no matter how much support he gets.
If I turn out to be wrong about Ron Paul, this will just show me that the US political system is even more hopeless than I thought. |
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Sponsor | | ntltrmllgnc | Dec 23, 2007 9:22am | | 72: There is a solution to that. Suppose we move to the vote bomb in addition to money bombs. Suppose we see how many Ron Paul supporters want to run for office. That will quiet the cranks. Can the 100% groupies imagine themselves as hard working officials? I think not. They want to be "fired up" like Obama's supporters. |
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Sponsor | | Laukev7 | Feb 6, 10:11pm | Ok, I was sent this article, and I remembered this thread. True Believer Syndrome? There is a glaring example of this, not amongst Ron Paul supporters, but Obama supporters:
tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/05/barack_obama_is_not_jesus [tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/05/barack_obama_is_not_jesus]
"Mack wanted to drill home one of the campaign's key strategies: telling potential voters personal stories of political conversion.
She urged volunteers to hone their own stories of how they came to Obama â€" something they could compress into 30 seconds on the phone.
"Work on that, refine that, say it in the mirror," she said. "Get it down."
She told the volunteers that potential voters would no doubt confront them with policy questions. Mack's direction: Don't go there. Refer them to Obama's Web site, which includes enough material to sate any wonk."
This is idolatry if I've ever seen it, and it's fucking scary. |
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Sponsor | | ntltrmllgnc | Feb 7, 6:41am | Actually that's the aggregate result. Ron Paul's independent campaign is also full of converts.
It's the "Go to the website" bit that makes it idolatry.
Because any Ron Paul convert can tell you why they converted what they like about Ron Paul and what they disagree with.
Just like those phony communists who couldn't stand up to Alex Jones, kept saying talk to our spokesperson. |
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Sponsor | | Laukev7 | Feb 7, 7:24am | | Just the 'go to the website' bit? Umm. 'How they came to Obama'? Compress it for 30 minutes on the phone?? It's fine to tell others how you came to support Obama / Ron Paul, but when a campaign purposely avoids policy talk and focusses on conversion as if it were some sort of personal revelation, then this is a personality cult. This reminds me of those old Apple switch ads. |
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Sponsor | | ntltrmllgnc | Feb 7, 8:37am | How they came to Obama and compressing it is fair game (that's the technical writer and user manual writer in me talking). Policy avoidance is the core of cultism. Conversion is fine, but it should be based on policies, attitude, history, and persistence. I trust the guy because he came through every time. Where he seems to lack is really the citizens' responsibility anyway.
I came to Ron Paul through Alex Jones, a huge dislike of soundbite politics, a dislike of Bush/Clinton, a distaste for left/right false flag Hegelian dialectics, and then I googled.
I'm sticking around because he inspires action not devotion. I couldn't stand dailykos for example because it was so comfortable there you couldn't get any real discussion. It was so comfortable it made me sick (I had a hungry feeling in my Colbertian gut).
We need a holographic network of supporters, not one that is centralized. We need to convert people not just add mass. Those whom we do not convert with policy we will convert with their candidates exposing themselves as sell outs. |
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